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says that mr. obama wants big government, not a big economy. >> republicans have tried to persuade the president of the need for a course correction. but weeks of negotiations have shown that his commitment to big government is simply too great to lead to the kind of long-term reforms we need. >> question. when the negotiations started, president obama was looking for a big deal. $4 trillion in spending cuts and tax hikes. has the big deal turned into a big fizzle, pat buchanan? >> it has not, john. did it for awhile but now it is back, and we're talking about something close to adds 4 trillion deal. the president is deep in negotiations with boehner and cantor, and here are the terms. you raise the debt ceiling, at the same time there are 3 trillion in cuts, and they deal with social security and medicare. there is no revenue enhancement. however, you get together some kind of commission which what it does, john, it drops tax rates in return for giving away these deductions, exemptions, allowances, breaks, which in effect is pure reaganism. there's one problem with that. there's a
in it that's pretty -- it's sort of outlined but not detailed in legislation and has a big, big dollar figure around it. so, sort of the big plan. passing that along with a debt ceiling as sort of a big theory option instead of this mcconnell/reid plan, but it's so vague, as you can tell, and nothing that i have as any sort of firm plan, just, like, something that's sort of out there in the ether, they just don't have a plan at this point, no one does, john. >> it sounds like, and some people at home are saying, my god, there they go into washington speak again. i'll try to simply phi it. they are trying to fit certain pieces together to get you to several trillion in deficit reduction and that seems to be where we are, a bunch ideas. i'll go over to the wall a little bit, because jess talks about the mcconnell plan, that would give the president the authority to raise the debt ceiling and maybe they would come up with a commission with spending cuts. that's one backup plan. another backup plan is the gang of six. and i want to bring up the gang of six yesterday we talked about that. they hav
economic soundness to this country. that take as big deal. a lot of pain. democrats are upset the president talked about pain on their side of the ail and republicans are saying no way will we give tax relief to middle income americans. they want to continue tax relief to the wealthy. everyone agrees a number around $4 trillion will make a serious debt on our deficit. it will send a statement to the world that the u.s. has gotten ahold of their fiscal problems and they are moving forward. it will give confidence to the american people that we can move forward to bring economic soundness. that's the president's commitment. >> 6:00 on the east coast. welcome to "morning joe." look at that nice live look at times square. joe is looking spify today. he went shopping. it is monday, july 11th. >> i don't know what that means. >> we have msnbc -- well, yes. this is unusual. we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle, john heilemann. what's so funny? >> yeah, what's so funny? i don't get it. he's back. >> we can't get him to leave. we have "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner and in washington
for something slightly cooler and less humid. coming up. >> our big story this morning is back to the drawing board after a republican-led house passes its version of a debt ceiling bill only to have it die in the senate. >> steve handelsman tells us where senate goes next. >> two hours after the boehner bill passes the house, senate democrats killed it. >> the ayes are 59. >> this is almost an out-of-body experience. >> all eyes on top senate republican mitch mcconnell. democrats say only he can fast track and make a deal. >> we all know the senate is the only way out of this mess. >> i stuck my neck out a mile. i put revenues on the table in order to try to come to an agreement to avert us being where they are. but a lot of people in this town can never say yes. >> boehner veered to the right, including a balanced budget constitutional amendment to get the votes of tea partier louie gomez. most in the senate said, no new amendments. >> this is the most outrageous suggestion i have heard. >> president obama insisted a weekend compromise is possible. >> this is not a situation where the two p
republicans. that would offer a big challenge to mitt romney. >> keith, why is at this moment rick perry holding out? >> i wish i could tell you what's going on inside rick perry's head. i think he's probably deciding if he's a legitimate candidate. if he can win the gop nomination. i think he is threatened by michele bachmann. i think she's sort of obviously protects the same type of people that are part of her base, part of his base. there's the question of electablity. if he wins the gop nomination, could he win the presidency? could he beat obama obama? i'm not convinced he could. >> what do you think, john, who would be the builtest threat to barack obama of three? >> i think romney would be the biggest threat. i think perry would come in second and i think that bachmann could would come in third. mitt romney has the organization out there. he has a compelling story when it comes to turn around artists. he turned around the olympics. he turned and massachusetts and turned around -- i think people want a turn around artist. perry has a story to tell about what he's done in texas as f
in three weeks the president continued to press for a big deal to raise the debt ceiling and to reduce the deficit by $4 trillion. >> i am still pushing for us to achieve a big deal. but what i also said to the group is if we can't do the biggest deal possible, then let's still be ambitious. let's still try to at least get a down payme on deficit reduction. we are obviously running out of time. and so what i have said to the members of congress is that you need over the next 24 to 36 hours to give me some sense of whayour plan is to get the debt ceiling rais through whatever mechanisms they can think about and show me a plan in tes of what you are doing for deficit and debt reduction. if they show me a serious plan, i'm readyo move. even if it requires some toh decisions on my part. and i'm hopeful that over the next couple of days 'll see this long jam broken because the american people i think understandably want toee washgton do its job. >> president obama ruled out a 2.4 trillion plan prosed by house republicans. >> in my expectation is that you will probably see the house vote on
it would have no choice but to default on some big bills, the ceo of walmart told congress today the squabbling here in washington could have a huge negative impact nationwide on an all fragile recovery. >> a default and the ripple effect i think would be impactful and representing our consumers, we think that that would be very, very difficult for the american economy to withstand at this point in time in our history. >> that's here at home. >>> then there are global worries. concerns that a default or even a close call here could rattle international markets and international economies like that domino effect back after the big wall street meltdown a few years ago. >> the united states is the largest economy in the world, one that matters, one that has spillover effects, not just around the borders, but on a complete basis, globally. >> so, the stakes, they're obvious. the path to the solution, however, not nearly as clear. >> is it today, is it tomorrow, is it friday? magic things can happen here in congress in a very short period of time under the right circumstances. >> now,
google, how are we going to create the next big thing -- but make sure that production is here. so it's great that we have an apple that's creating ipods, ipads and designing them and creating the software, but it would be nice if we're also making the ipads and the ipods here in the united states, because that's some more jobs that people can work at. and there are going to be a series of decisions that we've got to make. number one, are we investing in research and development in order to emphasize technology? and a lot of that has to come from government. that's how the internet got formed. that's how gps got formed. companies on their own can't always finance the basic research because they can't be assured that they're going to get a return on it. number two, we've got to drastically improve how we train our workforce and our kids around math and science and technology. number three, we've got to have a top-notch infrastructure to support advanced manufacturing, and we've got to look at sectors where we know this is going to be the future. something like clean energy, for exa
aren't paying as much attention to it, but it has big news over in the uk. hugh grant among a lot of people who say their phones were hacked by journalists. richard, you talked to him, what did he say? >> reporter: it's interesting, you say. the scandal is large, it's growing. the british government today said that there would be a public inquiry when the police are finished investigating. rupert murdoch, who owns the newspaper, by the way, it's this newspaper we're talking about, it's call "the news of the world," the normal rumor and gossip all dressed up with scantily clad ladies. when they started wholesale hacking of voice mail, it went into a different league. particularly, it was celebrities, it was stars, and now it's being dead murdered girl's voice mails and the patient parents of bomb victims and the like. when i talked to hugh earlier today, he said it's time to stop, it's time to say these newspapers, enough is enough. >> well, it began with just personal grievance, because i was a victim of phone hacking. and then i had this extraordinary piece of luck, where i ran i
time. sonja "black widow" thomas won with 40 dogs. i'm a big hot dog lover and can't imagine that. how many do you think you could eat? if you're hungry and like them. they're not the biggest. >> personally, i have had three. >> i can do better than three. >> really? >> i was thinking six or seven. >>> coming up, a grizzly discovery in an indiana creek. police waiting to see if it sheds light on the disappearance of a college coed. >>> also, a civil war reenactors in a battle with mother nature. why they got the shock of their life. >>> wowing the crowds in canada, what the royal couple is up to today. chronologically i'm sixty years old. is it the new forty, i don't know. i probably feel about thirty. how is it that we don't act our age? [ marcie ] you keep us young. [ kurt ] we were having too much fun we weren't thinking about a will at that time. we have responsibilities to the kids and ourselves. we're the vargos and we created our wills on legalzoom. finally. [ laughter ] [ shapiro ] we created legalzoom to help you take care of the ones you love. go to legalzoom.com today and co
center. how long is the weather with us and what does it mean for tomorrow's big holiday? >> we are expecting this to be around the rest of the night. severe thunderstorm watch in effect until midnight. here is a look at one of our tower cameras. it is pouring. water all over our lens here. in fact, you can hear the thunder rumbling outside our studios here. let's take a look at this severe thunderstorm watch and warning. right now live doppler 9000 shows us that we have got basically storms around the dc area. we have several in the dc area. let's zoom into show you what some of the storms are doing and where they are at. some holding hail just north of dc, south of silver spring where you see the purple color. that is where there is hail. damaging wind gusts as a possibility and some locally heavy rain which could lead to flash flooding. here are some of the areas that will be impacted. take a look. just in a couple minutes here. mt. pleasant. columbia heights. parkview. 6:32. out to the west some more storms heating out this way and you can see these storms are going to proba
for years just died. john mackey was 69 years old. >>> all right jamie, let's get into it. you can see big thundershower here in central hartford county. if you are bell air or also in cassel county, get ready. this is not a severe storm, but it will pack gusty conditions, some downpours and of course dangerous lightning. the main concern, and a storm flairing up. we'll keep an eye on that. other than that, you can see the clouds and storms firing up. boy this has been the other story. heat index values around triple digits, 99 in easten right now. this evening we fall slowly through the 80s, talk about the increased chance for showers and storms coming tomorrow straight ahead. >> think it's hot here, go down to d.c. after weeks of tense negotiations on capitol hill, congressional leaders from both parties met with the president to try and hammer out a deal to increase the nation's credit limit before the august 2 deadline. now with both sides drawing firm lines on what they are willing to cut, can any agreement actually pass congress? abc's karen travers with more. >> the debate over ho
the cia gets caught up in this big debate about how to interrogate what to do. >> they say it's tough. anytime they operate outside of iraq and afghanistan in battlefields it becomes murkier. they say they're faced with the question of can he go back to the u.s. and be tried? that has to go through several agencies. can he have a third-party that take him when neither of the two are available, they would be forced to let someone go. >> the obama administration's treatment of the somali terrorist suspect isn't sitting well with lawmakers on capitol hill. among them lindsey graham of south carolina. >> we learned this morning that a gentleman was taken into custody, kept on a u.s. ship and he's now in custody. >> the last thing i'm worried about is prosecuting enemy fighters. i want to find out what they know about the enemy, what intelligence value do they have to the united states. having people on ships has never been used in warfare before in terms of prisons. he should have been sent to guantanamo bay and held as an enemy combatant and interrogated. >> the administration would make
, the sharpest minds, best sources, hardest talk. >>> issue one, too big to fail? >> i urge democrats and republicans in the senate to find common ground on a plan they can get support that can get support from both parties in the houses, a plan that i can sign by tuesday. >> okay, the economic stats n the second quarter of this year, april, may, june, the u.s. economy grew at a rate of that's 4/10 every 1% growth. question, are these statistics a bigger worry than the debt ceiling prevailing argument? pat buchanan? >> they're equally big worries, john. despite the fact the president had an $800 billion stimulus fed is triple the money supply, three deficits of almost $5 trillion, the economy is dead in the water this. that argues for a stimulus of a reaganite stimulus or obama stimulus, but there's who more tools in the toolbox here. on the other side you have the debt deficit problem, which $10 trillion in deficits, which argues for austerity. spending cuts, taxations, so you've got two in total conflict. the president inherited aaron economy, john, that i think the only way this th
to be a very busy place. we got the folk line festival under way behind me, also the big fireworks show they're getting ready for on monday. two concerts on the steps of the capitol, also at the washington monument. but from coast to coast, we're talking beaches and barbecues and camping and celebration. july 1st and the 2011 great escape is on. ♪ hot fun in the summertime >> reporter: from yosemite in the west. >> i like the girls the best. >> reporter: aaa says 39 million americans will travel 59 miles or more this long weekend. that's 1 million fewer than last year. >> reporter: you can blame the pain at pump. the national average for unleaded now $3.54 a gallon, down from the high of $3.98 on may 4th. but still 80 cents higher than a year ago. >> it's still tough because we're still kind of transitioning from how high the gas prices were so we've got in the habit of not traveling as much. >> reporter: the big surprise? while fewer people are driving than a year ago, more people are flying. air travel is up 9% this summer. >> for some people, it actually may be more convenient and cheap
stunned to not see every single hand in the room go up. okay. two big thumbs up for the verge of selfishness. fantastic. if you have not read alice shrek in no way i envy you because you have before you a fantastic. the first reading is a transformer and experience. in poll after poll what americans are asked, what is the book that influences you the most. alice shrek is always in the top two or three. the town had. always in the top two or three. i have to tell you, there is a message in that that we libertarians, individualists, one of the curses is we tend to sometimes think that we are alone. i can tell you i certainly feel that way. i live in northern california where a libertarian can feel very, very alone. i live just south of san francisco, not literally in nazi policies congressional district, but i can smell it from our live. i can tell you, i feel very alone. it is fantastic to be here as freedom fest. it is great to see that there are like-minded people. they just don't have to live in my zip code. so written 54 years ago, probably the best selling book in the engl
on what happened to the man known as brother john. >> reporter: the people who knew him said he has a big heart and they are devastated. >> reporter: gave him fish and french fries. >> reporter: william holloway says the man he had come to know as brother john had just stopped by with a hot meal when somebody drove by in a van and opened fire. >> from that point on he shot three times and then two more shots. >> reporter: you heard five shots? >> five shots. the guy don't even know brother john. this is a random senseless shooting that should have never happened. if it hadn't been for brother john, they would have got shot. >> are you all right? >> yeah, i made it through. >> reporter: holloway says brother john has been bringing him food on the streets of east oakland for about a year, sometimes three days a week. >> he was a nice guy. him and his wife fixed the food at home and bring it out here to feed people. >> reporter: the shooting happened at 12:30 a.m. at 47th and san leandro. oakland police say the original report came into the chp when somebody flagged down an officer to report
the band-aid. eat our peas. >> reporter: of course, taxes remains the big sticking point. the president, though, insisting that nothing would change before 2013 so it would not happen during a difficult economic environment, but house speaker john boehner saying that there's no reason to raise taxes in order to control spending. he believes the best way to get revenue is by improving the overall economy by creating jobs. he says he is willing to get a deal done with democrats and the white house, but, in his words, it takes two to tango and they are not there yet. >> dan lothian at the white house, thanks. >>> the debt crisis overseas sending a chill through wall street this morning. less than half hour before the opening bell, u.s. stocks may be headed for another rough day. ali velshi is joining us live from new york. ali, what does it mean? >> well, you know, first of all, futures seem to be leveling out a little bit, kyra. a couple of things going on here. one as dan was just saying, we just heard from the treasury secretary who is making a speech and he says he is expecting a deal
francisco, one man is dead after the shuttle bus that he was riding in collided with a big rig. anser hassan reports. >> reporter: traffic is back to normal. but in the morning it wasn't the case at octavia and oak streak. it was closed after a big rig and shuttle bus carrying 15 passengers collided leaving one man dead. this intersection is prone to accidents according to residents but nothing like what they saw this morning. >> this goes on all the time. to be a pedestrian in this area driving is dangerous. >> reporter: or even fatal as was the case this morning. a shuttle bus was carrying employees and possibly patients to san francisco general hospital. it crashed with this big rig carrying cars at octavia and oak street in san francisco's hayes valley. the force was so strong, it causedded a passenger to be ejected. somehow he landed in front of the big rig where he was pinned under the vehicle. the male victim in his 40s was pronounced dead at the scene. >> we do know that the tractor- trailer was going northbound on octavia but we're not sure which direction that the shuttle was going
to engage in serious negotiations. >> so, now what is the big question? speaker boehner will rebut the president just about 14 minutes from now. we'll take you there live. in his letter to his colleagues, he said his preference now is to work on a plan in the congress. but the president expects the house and the senate leaders of both parties at the white house saturday morning. is this just theater before a deal or a recipe for gridlock and maybe an economy shattering government default? chief white house correspondent jessi jessica yellin, and kate bolduan, and gloria borger here, jess, the speaker doesn't want to negotiate anymore, and this is not a president known for his anger or his temper, but he seemed pretty piqued. >> reporter: this was the president hitting by far his most frustrated, fed-up note during the debt negotiations by far, john. we heard him say that the republicans just don't know how to say yes. that he offered the most generous package he could. in short he said that he offered them a deal that democrats just didn't like. he was basically saying he was enrag
of them who have trouble hitting this will help their chances of repeating. this is big news, carlos beltran is one of the best hitters in the lead. >> we will have some more coverage later. new at 5:00 p.m. a naked man attack in san francisco and is caught on video. why the police say that this video is a hate crime. also a television news anchor was attacked live on air. we will show what caused the confrontation plus, there was a big room brawl. q. have owners x speaks out about the playboys passion or lack thereof and how the magazine mobile is fighting back all ahead. it's really delicious, mom. it's not too well done? nope. but it is a job well done. what are you reading, sweetie? her diary. when you're done, i'd love some feedback. sure. your mom and i read that thing cover-to-cover. loved it. thanks. would you mind if i cut the lawn this weekend? only if you let me talk to your mother on the phone for hours on end. done. [ male announcer ] u-verse brings peace to the family. at&t u-verse lets you record four shows at once from any room and play them back on any tv. get u-ver
. >> afghanistan off page one. iraq is on page one? >> in the ends of july, this is going to be up this big on page one finish they're in the deal. he's got to -- [everyone talking at once] >> unemployment rate on page one! >> if the unemployment rate comes out high, it will be the lead story in the newspaper, john. >> it will dominate the story that we just had? >> it will dominate if for a couple days. >> there will be a deal. >> there will be a deal? >> and there will be a deal and neither side will be happy. each side will give the other side something. they're -- >> not the taxes. that won't be part of the deal. taxes will not be part of the deal. >> what do you 90. >> tax revenues -- [everyone talking at once] >> they'll find something, i think, to agree on finally. i don't know whether it will be on august 2 or august 5th. but unemployment rate is not off the front pages. unemployment is -- on the number-one issue in 20% of american names. you have the biggest unemployment we've had since the great despres in real terms that. is what will kill obama's prospects if he doesn't do something abo
how well you understand these things as an attorney and as a correspondent. that's a big level. he we are a case that fascinated a lot of people, including me. what did you think? can eve you even ayou is stunned? i. have to say i was surprised. because how quickly the jurors came back with this verdict and the fact it was a wholesale rejection of the prosecution's case. i mean, the jurors had an array of charges to consider. everything from the top charge of first-degree death penalty eligible murder all wait down to just a straight charge of child abuse, and even though anyone watching this case could see the problems of proof the prosecutors were dealt. the fact we don't know when caylee died, or exactly how caylee died although prosecutors had theories that were consistent with the evidence, but the evidence wasn't positive of those theories. at the end of the day, i thought the jurors might get back there in the jury room and say you know what? given her behavior, not reporting the child missing for 31 day, that search of death emanating out of the trunk of the car, multiple witn
to meet with the president if he is really willing to do something big for the country. >> all right. again, it's ask obama. that's the hash tag you are supposed to use. these tweets, thousands and thousands of them are pouring in. it gets going in an hour. these are all you are seeing in real time behind me right now. again, the president responding to your questions, and one coming in on twitter at his twitter town hall at the top of the next hour. >>> this hour's sound affect is the first victory of the 2018 winter olympics. the decision on where to hold them. >> the international olympic committee has the honor of announcing that the winter olympic games in 2018 are awarded to the city of -- pyengchang. >> well, after losing the 2010 games and the 2014 games to russia, and they pulled ahead to play post to the 2018 games. south korea never hosted a winter olympics. and seoul had the games in '88. >>> other stories we're keeping a close eye on. a facebook event that is expected at any moment and expected to be awesome. room nuumors have been swirlinge internet, to a video chat ser
.5 trillion does not make any of the big issues go away. sooner or later republicans are going to have to swallow some revenue increases. host: what is the purpose of today's news conference from the president? caller: the purpose for the president is to set a delicate balance. on the one hand he wants to claim the political high ground, i assume, saying that he tried and pushed for historic bipartisan achievement. unfortunately, we will like it there. the reason is that republicans will not sign on to a bold, $1 trillion tax overhaul. so, he wants to show the voters that he is the big negotiator. everything that he said the revlon in 2008. but he does not want to poison the well to make these negotiations for the rest of the week. >> what is the main message coming from republicans going into this meeting? >> it would seem that their main message is probably going to stay the same period that we are for a big deal, but not a big tax increase. or any tax increase. once again they will be challenged to expand on this sharp rhetorical edge. id is a distinction without much of a differenc
] every box of general mills big g cereals can help your kids' scho get extra stuff. ♪ like musical instrents. ♪ and new art supplies. ♪ because they're e only cereals with box tops for education. last year, schools earned over ten million dollars from big g cereals. you can raise money foyour kids' school. look for this logo... only on big g cereals. you can make a difference. >>> welcome back everyone. >> despite the deadlock on how to reduce the deficit, president obama says in his weekly address that republicans and democrats are not that far apart. the countdown to tuesday's deadline shows little time left as you see there, little time to get a bill through both houses of congress and signed by the president. based on what we are seeing and hearing in public from the leaders of both parties, a compromise by tuesday seems impossible, but even now the president says progress is being made. >> i have to say democrats in congress and some senate republicans have been listening and showing themselves willingness to solve the crisis. now, all of us including the republicans and d
for nasa and the united states. sometimes it takes the big think from above and we will see if this government weighs in too. >> interesting fact. the president who signed off on the idea of the shuttle. >> who? >> who saw the model? president nixon. a long time ago. >> almost. >> >>> that does it for us. for now, kyra phillips takes over with "cnn newsroom." >> good morning. it's 9:00 a.m. on the east coast and 6:00 a.m. on the west coast. i'm kyra phillips. >>> a tough wait for casey anthony and everyone invested in her murder trial. she is accused of killing her 2-year-old daughter caylee. the jury beginning second day of deliberations. >>> former imf chief dominique strauss-kahn facing a you new complaint. a writer says he tried to rape her eight years ago. her lawyer is following the charge with prosecutors. >>> senate back in session after the holiday weekend. top of the agenda? the jet ceiling deadlock. the treasury due to run out of money in less than a month. >>> we begin this morning, it's been more than 30 hours in shark-infested water. coast guard crews and mexic
and that book became "special circumstances," story of a murder in a big law firm. it came out in 2000 and spent seven weeks on "the new york times"' bestsellers' list. so for those of you who have bought my books, i thank you, because now i don't have to practice law full-time anymore. >> but all kidding aside, you know, i think crime novelists and readers of crime novels whether it's lawyer books or whether it's private detectives or cops, you know, in my world i'm like -- unlike tony's, i can control the outcome. i can get justice in my books because i can fix the ending. and i start -- and most authors do i start with the ending. i know who did it, how and why. and by god, when i write that book, i'm going to make sure justice is served. i think that's why people keep coming back to lawyer books in particular because there's a lot of drama in the courtroom. there's always a murder. there's always big stakes. i've written books about death penalty cases. the stakes don't get any bigger than that. and i think it was important to me to have the center of my books a defense att
down. >> to emphasize why this matter, this is as big a crisis in britain in a generation plus. it's the police, political establishment, media establishment and the most important media person in the u.s. which is rupert murdoch. not to cover this would be journalistic malfeasance. >> you have the democratic senatorial campaign putting out a statement. you wouldn't see that liberals who don't like rupert murdoch are just milking this for all it's worth? >> if this had no connection whatsoever to the nature of the operations, especially through fox news, you might say they're reaching. since the basic accusation that michael wolf was saying, that murdoch is using his media power for political ends is similar in the u.s. and the u.s. it's natural the democrats would say this. >> on your media blog at "the washington post" you took on a story about the difference between british and american journalism. you say basically we should come out and say british journalism standards are sleazy and destructive. you think we're dancing around this? >> in this particular iteration, i couldn't
reform. it is quite a big undertaking considering there isn't a lot of time left but certainly some movement that we have seen since yesterday, guy. >> any specifics? i think important people who are listening to the process of what's happening in washington, what this means for people over a longer period of time is fewer services and smaller government and maybe higher taxes or higher cost of living your life as the services go away. i mean, all of these have amazing and long lasting ramifications for how we live our lives. my specifics? >> huge long -- no. honestly in terms of the specific, i mean, we can talk generally about where the cuts would come from, entitlements, defense spending, you can see how that would affect different people and the nation as a whole. specifics, no, i think we are going to be getting, obviously, more details on that to come. let's just take a look at some of the things that some of the folks who are coming here to the white house are going to demand because, remember, president obama is hosting eight members of congress, top two democrats and top tw
that and in exchange for some minor tweaking of medicare, but nothing that really gives the republicans too big a win on that issue. and they would also argue, to gloria's point earlier, that you actually need this. this is not just a win for democrats, you need it because you need democratic votes to get this through because you're going to lose so many republicans who simply won't vote to extend the debt ceiling under any circumstances. so that's the calculus if you went with the middle deal, there would be an entirely different math for a tax reform package if you went with that larger deal that's more in the $4 trillion range. >> the irony here to me is that a larger deal would in many ways be easier to cut because it's so obvious what you would have to do. if you do a smaller deal, then you have to have eric cantor lay out by piece by piece by piece, cut by cut, by cut, what he would do if you don't have the revenue side of it. >> but to get the bigger deal, you need trust that they would actually then do comprehensive tax reform, rewrite the code so the republicans would make the case we didn't
it is that momentous. the flurry of talk last week about going big and swinging for the fences were underscoring the idea of the president and the speaker to persuade the democratic and republican rank- and-file to go for something as big as $4 trillion. it was a long shot to begin with. both sides decided to spend a few days pursuing this long shot and it turns out that speaker behner blinked first. he was the first one to realize publicly that he did not have the votes in his own troops to get this through because it would require too much. host: if the number goes down from $4 trillion, what gets left behind? guest: you go from $4 trillion down to something. the fall back number we think is $2.50 trillion. that is the amount of deficit reduction that would be necessary to get republicans to vote for an equivalent amount of debt ceiling increase. that is what is required to keep the treasury in the flush to get for the next election. that is the number and we know that the vice president had six members of congress and they were pretty close. they were at about $2 trillion. entirely from the s
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